NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #16 |
I would note the use of the lower case "i" in the midst of capital printing that is dotted. It is not unusual to use the lower case "i" in the middle of capital printing, but dotting the "i" is. Most would just use a single stroke for the "i" leaving it un-dotted....
On the words document I captured the only connection stroke made in any of the capital printing by both authors--- XT.
I tried several times yesterday to recreate this stroke on my own, and it is impossible for me to make the connection due to the way I begin and end the X. I guess that rules me out! LOL
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AveryJ
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 116
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Reply with quote | #17 |
I have a question: Since Steve Hodel all-but-solved the Black Dahlia murder (I read both his books on the subject, including his newest, "Most Evil."), why are we talking about JT possibly being the BDA? It's ironic that Hodel is trying to make the evidence fit with his father as the Zodiac, and we on a Zodiac board are trying to make another father suspect as the Zodiac fit into the BD crimes.
And no, from reading Hodel's "Most Evil," I can say unequivocably that his father was NOT the Zodiac, starting with the age, the differing MOs,physical appearance, etc. The so-called police drawing of the Zodiac in Hodel's book is not one of the legitimate police drawings. Hodel tries, he really tries, to make the evidence fit, but his efforts fall short. A hard-to-put-down book and very compelling, however, but to be taken with a grain of salt. |
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #18 |
This is how this whole thing played itself out:
When I was searching for Z letters I came across the BD letters, and asked Dennis his take and if JT could have been in the area during the time of the murder because I saw similarities to JT's writing. Dennis said don't go there just focus on Z.
Now Oreo comes to the board with this Hodel character making claims of his link to the Zodiac. Now, I know this to be completely untrue, so I thought about taking a look at it and realized that this guy was a joke, but then 2 days later Dennis called me and was insistant that I examine it.
Dennis said that he had bought Hodel's book sometime back due to a lead he received, but never looked at the handwriting because he naturally assumed the MO was different and so forth.
There was no harm entertaining it, I actually laughed about being able to do the exams myself on other pending cases that had handwriting involved with the murder to see if it was JT while on the phone with the FBI....
So, AveryJ was it you that said that the doc examiner's opinion was "probable" in the Hodel book?
Because if that is the case, the ASTM guidelines cover the grey scale degree of possible conclusions.
Probable--- the evidence contained in the handwriting points rather strongly toward the questioned and known writings having been written by the same individual; however, falls short of the "virtually certain" degree of confidence.
This is a persuasive opinion, but hardly binding. It's almost to say there is a lack of committment on her part. He either is or isn't, there is no "I think so."
My favorite saying is "pick it and be it." It applies to almost every aspect of life. :)
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AveryJ
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 116
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Reply with quote | #19 |
I became a little interested in the BD case back in the 1980s when my brother-in-law told me the story of how it was his mother and oldest sister who discovered the Elizabeth Short body in LA in 1947 (I had never heard of the BD). Frankly, the murder was repulsive, so I didn't get too much into it. Then years later I read a couple of books, Hodel's being one of them, after I saw him on Dateline.
Reading Hodel's book, the BDA, I was almost convinced his father was the murderer. What held me back was the fact that LAPD didn't buy it officially, declaring the case is still unsolved.
It reminded me of reading Graysmith's two books about the Zodiac. Having grown up during the Zodiac reign not too far from his hunting ground, I still didn't think ALA was the Zodiac. After reading both books (incidentally, the second book "Zodiac Unmasked" came out around the same time as the DNA results exonerating ALA), changed my mind. Graysmith's books were compelling, until I found out several years ago that Graysmith twisted the facts.
It's difficult for the public (without LE behind-the-scenes info) to draw any valid conclusions when the information presented is skewed, a la Graysmith and Hodel.
I nearly forgot the Cookie Monster was the one who brought this up in the first place!
Thanks again, Nanette, for the background.
AJ
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trustno1
Registered: 06/29/09
Posts: 68
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Reply with quote | #20 |
Here I am....Over here.... Ms. Barto, I attempted to download those things but, pardon my latin, my fu..... dailup connection through a pre-columbian provider hindered my ability to see it. I will try to look at it at home sometime since I have high speed with a much better provider there. It's been a while since I last looked at and/or read anything about the Black Dahlia, so I'm very interested to see what you have. I may even have a book about the case somewhere, but I'm not sure. I have a fairly sizeable collection of books on true crime, so many that my wife thinks that I might become one of those people that I read about. But then again??? LOL. Sometimes my mind just wanders. |
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #21 |
This works...Trustno1!
I am putting together my notes on it still, but I am open to others thoughts on it!
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #22 |
AveryJ, I asked in "Responses to Jacks Handwriting" if you knew whether the FBI files on Beth Short were redacted or not. I don't want to pay to download them nor do I like being at a site that wants to promote a Universal Pictures movie. I gather I should search the net for the FBI files? I note that Beth Short site runner had started getting FBI files in 1999.
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #23 |
I removed this unverifiable, unconfirmed "FBI" redacted page. But still would like to thank AveryJ because it makes me want to look and find more of these.....maybe I will find one that is truly from the LE agency that looked into these cases and/or one that is truly an FBI file.
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BARman
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 236
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #25 |
BARman, I am wondering if it's "never" graduated from High School. This is redacted in such a way to twist the possibilities in favor of suspects for movies, Television, and websites.... IMO, IMVHO (in my very, humble opinion).
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #26 |
I read that to say born in ####### reared in #######, graduated highschool. Beside if they were 25 at the time of this interview in 1945 then it isn't JT. JT would only be 17 in 1945 if my calculations are correct.
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #27 |
My apologies everybody but I removed the unconfirmed and unverifiable redacted page as it doesn't have a date, doesn't say which LE agency. I don't like it when someone else posts such an unverifiable thing, so, I removed this. I plan on hunting down some more but it's issues like this that have skewed so many cases, like Zodiac and I can see Black Dahlia as well that make it difficult to tell which is truly, the real deal and which isn't.
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #28 |
Don't apologize, it was worth a look Catseye... I just don't think we are going to find anywhere that JT was ever a suspect! :)
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Originally Posted by BARman
That's actually some interesting food for thought, Nanette. Could it be JT was culpable for the BD?
If that would be the case, then the BD and Georgette Bauerdorf murders would be unrelated as JT wasn't in the vicinity during that time. Correct?
Hmmm...
I guess anything is possible. Wouldn't that be crazy!
How does the BD MO fit with later murders that are suspected (but unconfirmed) to be Z?
Could it be there was more than 1 person involved in BD? Like it's suspected Denny was JT's accomplice at LB, possibly some other sick and twisted POS helped with BD? JT's brother Don?
Hmmm...
Even if it's totally not, it's still interesting food for thought.
From NanetteB:
Who was Georgette Bauerdorf? Where was her murder?
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jon55
Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 547
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Reply with quote | #30 |
Nanette
GB was strangled in 1944 in West Hollywood........I didnt read much of the website........just enough to make sure I had the right person and I do think this is who Barman was referring to.
http://georgettebauerdorf.com/
Sorry I have still not got back to you........my friend has still not got back with me........hope you are having better luck on your end.
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