Skeptic
Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 54
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Forgive me for creating this topic but I couldn't decided whether to post BD comments in the Richard Larsen thread or the Responses to Jacks Handwriting thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by NanetteBQuote: Originally Posted by BARman
BD was precisely severed at her vertebrae. She had feces in her stomach. The gruesome joker smile 'carved' on her face. Not in line with the Z MO.
MOs develop, if somebody was capable of something so horrific that early on... By the time of the Z murders you would have seen something really freaky. Z was relatively mild in comparison.
The Z MO does fit with the Texarkana Phantom, Riverside and, if you wanted to speculate on if/how Z's MO developed after his known/official murders, there's a whole mess of post 1970 murders that could also fit him. But definitely not BD, who ever did that was even more disturbed than Z was.
There was actually a suspect they were going to nail with BD but he died in a fire before they could make an arrest. And he did fit the profile. He was out on parole for rape. He was also a suspect in a murder of the heiress girl who looked like BD and was murdered in a strange way about 2 years earlier. The exact details slip my mind at the moment but it's out there if you look.
Z IMO did not have a strict MO as most would say!
So, let's theorize for just a moment!
Let's say this was the first kill, or one of the first...
It would make sense that it would mimic an animal because this is where JT obtained his obsession with killing.
It would also make sense that this MO would be very strenuous. If you have ever hunted, and brought in a deer or an elk, then you know it is a humongous task. Just like the task that was accomplished on BD.
So, it isn't hard to believe that he moved onto easier and least likely to get caught methods while still getting his thrill.
The shooting is obvious game hunting, what happened at LB is more like pig hunting, and BD is like deer hunting.....
This is definitely where I am out on a limb, but hunting strikes me as the game here. I have never felt that JT was insane.
While there are some similarities between BD and Z, there are also many profound differences that IMHO show they are 2 different killers. From what I remember, the BD murder included:
- A substantial amount of torture including knife/scapel slashes, cigaratte burns(?), head trauma and as Barman pointed out, the victim was forced to eat feces. Some really sick stuff.
- Elizabeth Short may have been held captived and tortured for hours or days. There were several days where she was unaccounted for prior to the discovery of her body.
- The body was not only drained of blood but it was washed or cleaned. I can't remember if this was due to the killer being obsessed with cleanliness or an extra step to removing evidence. In either case, it's a sign of a well organized and planned murder.
- The lower body was posed with the legs spread eagle. This was interpreted as a way to further humilate the victim or women in general.
- The killer was profiled as having a tremendous amount of rage and hatred towards women.
If JT was stationed in San Diego at the time and commited the murder:
- He would have to have access to a car or transportation to get to LA as well move a body around
- He would need an isolated or private location for a long period to torture, cut, drain and clean the body.
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Skeptic
Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 54
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Reply with quote | #2 |
I read somewhere that the LAPD has either lost or destroyed all the physical evidence related to the Black Dahlia. It's nice to know that there are other LE agencies in the same league as the SFPD. |
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Skeptic, as far as I can follow on the possibilities of Jack being a better Black Dahlia suspect, in what little I understand of these crimes, the era they occured was when there were lots of farmland and open space, probably desert-like in spots, as well. No major Freeways nor Interchanges were in the area, alot of dirt roads as it was a far cry from how it looks today. So, if Jack, stationed in San Diego, as "Black Dahlia" were to need open areas and little people nearby, would have had plenty of this. But if anyone wants to add or subtract to this, please do...as I wasn't born yet and so not a witness to this.
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Just thought you might like to see for yourselves if there is a connection between Jack Tarrance and Black Dahlia:
http://s948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/NanetteB_2009/
This URL will take you to 9 different spreadsheets of comparison writing between the Black Dahlia Suspect and Jack Tarrance.....
For reasons that are obvious I will not render an opinion on these findings publicly. So, I have compiled a pre-cursory spreadsheet for everyone to view that I will be making my notes on.....
If you have Excel capabilities you are welcome to email me at nanette@handwritingdocumentexamination.com if you would like a clearer version! :)
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Skeptic
Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 54
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Nanette,
Is your examination comparing writing between BD suspect,George Hodel and Jack Tarrance or between actual BD murderer communication (letters/postcards) and Jack Tarrance? |
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #6 |
My comparison is on the Black Dahlia Suspect and Jack Tarrance, no Z influence at all....
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Skeptic
Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 54
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Reply with quote | #7 |
What I mean is are you exemplars from George Hodel or from the the Black Dahlia murderer communication? |
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catseye
Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 826
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Reply with quote | #8 |
NanetteB, I just looked at the Dahlia and JT handwriting comparisons and the first thing I noticed was that it was hard to tell them apart...it looked like the same writer to me. I had to squint to see if there might be tiny differences and whatever few I saw, well, maybe just the little differences are due to age? Way to go!
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If truthe is like beauty, then it, too, is in the eye of the beholder - Catseye |
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jon55
Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 547
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Reply with quote | #9 |
I cannot tell them apart either.........most of them are dang near identical to my untrained eye..........
Barman has already mentioned this on the Richard Larsen thread.......JT might very well have not been the killer in this case........hunting references aside.....I think that JT may have known many hunters.....most hunters do.
I have been thinking on this most of the day.
FWIW here is a short version of a far out theory.......and it is just pure speculation.
What if JT was recruited by one or more killers and one of the first things that he did was write some letters.
It has been speculated by some (me included) that this could be ongoing crimes perpetrated by several individuals.
If we make JT the young buck of the group and the letter writer only this would solve the MO problem and the escalation problem
OTOH........z pretty much broke all the serial killer rules anyway.
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Skeptic
What I mean is are you exemplars from George Hodel or from the the Black Dahlia murderer communication?
The exemplars are from the Black Dahlia Suspect, there is no Hodel in the mix!!!
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Jack Tarrace is the top line of each letter as you will see color cutyouts, whereas, Black Dahlia suspect is purely b/w cutouts, and always on the bottom of the comparison!
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Quote: Originally Posted by jon55
I cannot tell them apart either.........most of them are dang near identical to my untrained eye..........
Barman has already mentioned this on the Richard Larsen thread.......JT might very well have not been the killer in this case........hunting references aside.....I think that JT may have known many hunters.....most hunters do.
I have been thinking on this most of the day.
FWIW here is a short version of a far out theory.......and it is just pure speculation.
What if JT was recruited by one or more killers and one of the first things that he did was write some letters.
It has been speculated by some (me included) that this could be ongoing crimes perpetrated by several individuals.
If we make JT the young buck of the group and the letter writer only this would solve the MO problem and the escalation problem
OTOH........z pretty much broke all the serial killer rules anyway.
Your last statement Jon55, is what I am most interested in.... He broke all the rules, and I believe he broke them by himself in most instances, but don't listen to me because I just do handwriting!!! :)
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BARman
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 236
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Is there a copy of the whole BD communication someplace?
It would be interesting to see word and sentence construction.
I agree with Jon, they do look similar. Different people's printed writing can look very similar, but this is sort of weird that they're both infamous criminals. Possibly they traced from the same printed alphabet?
Nannette,
Without letting us know if it matches or not, what is the biggest 'sore thumb' among them? What should be our first clue?
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NanetteB
Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 657
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Reply with quote | #14 |
I did find the communications on some of the BD sites, but they were drawn all over which disturbs my exam, so I scanned from the original BD book that S.Hodel wrote in a pdf format. I cannot download that to photobucket because I gave the book back. I can email them to you if you are interested, or you can google BD and check out the sites til you find them! :)
What do you mean sore thumb?
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BARman
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 236
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